Hi all,
This story might be a little involved, but basically it comes down
to me having spongy brakes.
I just had the front brake pads & rotors replaced, and since then,
I’ve had to apply more force than I’m used to to get the same response
from my brakes. I called the mechanic and said I thought it was air in
the line, but he said they didn’t open the brake line at all. Now, my
first question is: Could there still be any air in the brake line that
got introduced somehow?
Also, when I dropped the car off, it was a wet day, and it got really
cold that night. The mechanic said the next day when he drove the car
into the shop, he felt some resistance, so he checked the rear brakes
and had to "unstick the calipers".
So now the mechanic thinks the calipers are shot and stuck "open". Is
this possible? Is it likely that the calipers would need to be
replaced? I’m a little frustrated that the car came out of the shop
needing more repairs than when it went in. Could the mechanic have
damaged the calipers when he ‘unstuck’ them?
One other thing, the brake fluid is about due for flushing anyway.
Could dirty brake fluid be causing this?
Anyway, any additional diagnosis would be helpful. I’ll try to list
all the other things I’ve tried:
-Brakes spongy
-Parking brake still stops the car.
-Pumping brakes while car is on doesn’t seem to have much effect (but
I’m not 100% sure)
-Pedal depresses far – but not all the way to the floor.
-No weird smells or noises.
-Still need to check brake fluid levels.
"saxman" <erll…@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170176202.360129.153370@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com…
> Hi all,
> This story might be a little involved, but basically it comes down
> to me having spongy brakes.
> I just had the front brake pads & rotors replaced, and since then,
> I’ve had to apply more force than I’m used to to get the same response
> from my brakes. I called the mechanic and said I thought it was air in
> the line, but he said they didn’t open the brake line at all. Now, my
> first question is: Could there still be any air in the brake line that
> got introduced somehow?
It isnt too unusual for new brakes to feel a little weak at first, just
after pads have been replaced and rotors either machined or replaced.
Usually they "wear in" after a short time and feel normal.
BUT:
If he replaced the pads, he had to force the pistons back into the caliper.
In my opinion, it is sloppy and unprofessional to put everything back
together and NOT bleed the system. It is precautionary, and helps
remove the possibly contaminated brake fluid from the system. Some say
that pushing the piston back into the caliper without opening the system
can push crud back into the master cylinder and precipitate early failure.
I am not for sure about this, but wouldnt discount it. (I dont do it)
I dont think the problem you are seeing is from contaminated fluid, but
bleeding, to me, is a given. (Maybe others dont agree,and that is certainly
their privilege)
If your back brakes are not working, you will lose a percentage of your
total braking power. Again, I cant believe this mechanic noticed the
a problem with the back brakes, and gave it only a superficial tweak.
Loafing back brakes will put undesirable load on the front rotors, and
can cause them to fail early.
Was this a dealership, or a franchise like Just Brakes? In short, I dont
care for the attitude of the mechanic or shop that did this.
saxman wrote:
> Hi all,
> This story might be a little involved, but basically it comes down
> to me having spongy brakes.
> I just had the front brake pads & rotors replaced, and since then,
> I’ve had to apply more force than I’m used to to get the same response
> from my brakes.
I have a feeling that you don’t really know the meaning of "force". Do
you have to push the pedal harder or does the pedal just travel farther
than it used to? If the rear pistons were stuck and now are free and
working properly that would explain a lot. It would explain why the
front brakes wore out and needed work. It would explain why the pedal
now moves farther. Were you offered the option of having the brakes bled
and brake fluid changed for an additional charge? How about the rear
brakes did you have the option of doing them also?
-jim
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>I called the mechanic and said I thought it was air in
> the line, but he said they didn’t open the brake line at all. Now, my
> first question is: Could there still be any air in the brake line that
> got introduced somehow?
> Also, when I dropped the car off, it was a wet day, and it got really
> cold that night. The mechanic said the next day when he drove the car
> into the shop, he felt some resistance, so he checked the rear brakes
> and had to "unstick the calipers".
> So now the mechanic thinks the calipers are shot and stuck "open". Is
> this possible? Is it likely that the calipers would need to be
> replaced? I’m a little frustrated that the car came out of the shop
> needing more repairs than when it went in. Could the mechanic have
> damaged the calipers when he ‘unstuck’ them?
> One other thing, the brake fluid is about due for flushing anyway.
> Could dirty brake fluid be causing this?
> Anyway, any additional diagnosis would be helpful. I’ll try to list
> all the other things I’ve tried:
> -Brakes spongy
> -Parking brake still stops the car.
> -Pumping brakes while car is on doesn’t seem to have much effect (but
> I’m not 100% sure)
> -Pedal depresses far – but not all the way to the floor.
> -No weird smells or noises.
> -Still need to check brake fluid levels.
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On Jan 30, 2:08 pm, <H…@nospam.nix> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "saxman" <erll…@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1170176202.360129.153370@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com…
> > Hi all,
> > This story might be a little involved, but basically it comes down
> > to me having spongy brakes.
> > I just had the front brake pads & rotors replaced, and since then,
> > I’ve had to apply more force than I’m used to to get the same response
> > from my brakes. I called the mechanic and said I thought it was air in
> > the line, but he said they didn’t open the brake line at all. Now, my
> > first question is: Could there still be any air in the brake line that
> > got introduced somehow?
> It isnt too unusual for new brakes to feel a little weak at first, just
> after pads have been replaced and rotors either machined or replaced.
> Usually they "wear in" after a short time and feel normal.
> BUT:
> If he replaced the pads, he had to force the pistons back into the caliper.
> In my opinion, it is sloppy and unprofessional to put everything back
> together and NOT bleed the system. It is precautionary, and helps
> remove the possibly contaminated brake fluid from the system. Some say
> that pushing the piston back into the caliper without opening the system
> can push crud back into the master cylinder and precipitate early failure.
> I am not for sure about this, but wouldnt discount it. (I dont do it)
> I dont think the problem you are seeing is from contaminated fluid, but
> bleeding, to me, is a given. (Maybe others dont agree,and that is certainly
> their privilege)
> If your back brakes are not working, you will lose a percentage of your
> total braking power. Again, I cant believe this mechanic noticed the
> a problem with the back brakes, and gave it only a superficial tweak.
The mechanic has since suggested replacing the calipers – how likely
do you think that these are the problem?
> Loafing back brakes will put undesirable load on the front rotors, and
> can cause them to fail early.
> Was this a dealership, or a franchise like Just Brakes? In short, I dont
> care for the attitude of the mechanic or shop that did this.
This was an independent dealer who specializes in European cars. He
did a great job replacing my timing belt, but that is the only other
service I’ve had him do.
> I have a feeling that you don’t really know the meaning of "force". Do
> you have to push the pedal harder or does the pedal just travel farther
> than it used to?
Well, I definitely have to push the pedal further in, but I also have
to apply more force to the pedal to get it to stop at the rate I am
used to. In other words, if I push on the brakes in the way I am
normally used to, the car takes a lot longer to come to a complete
stop.
>If the rear pistons were stuck and now are free and
> working properly that would explain a lot.
The rear pistons have *not* been stuck before. There had been no sign
that the calipers had a problem before I took the car into the shop.
In fact, the brakes seemed fine before getting the front pads
replaced. The calipers only seemed to be stuck when the mechanic took
the car into the shop. In this case, he said they were stuck in the
"closed" position.
>It would explain why the
> front brakes wore out and needed work.
I was under the impression the front brake pad replacement was normal
wear-and-tear. (The car has 97000 miles)
>It would explain why the pedal
> now moves farther. Were you offered the option of having the brakes bled
> and brake fluid changed for an additional charge? How about the rear
> brakes did you have the option of doing them also?
No option for either was given to me. After he ‘unstuck’ the calipers,
the dealer offered to replace those – but at $800 I wasn’t too keen on
him replacing them if they weren’t really malfunctioning.
"saxman" <erll…@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170185611.098511.233760@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Jan 30, 2:08 pm, <H…@nospam.nix> wrote:
> > "saxman" <erll…@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1170176202.360129.153370@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com…
> > > Hi all,
> > > This story might be a little involved, but basically it comes down
> > > to me having spongy brakes.
> > > I just had the front brake pads & rotors replaced, and since then,
> > > I’ve had to apply more force than I’m used to to get the same response
> > > from my brakes. I called the mechanic and said I thought it was air in
> > > the line, but he said they didn’t open the brake line at all. Now, my
> > > first question is: Could there still be any air in the brake line that
> > > got introduced somehow?
> > It isnt too unusual for new brakes to feel a little weak at first, just
> > after pads have been replaced and rotors either machined or replaced.
> > Usually they "wear in" after a short time and feel normal.
> > BUT:
> > If he replaced the pads, he had to force the pistons back into the
caliper.
> > In my opinion, it is sloppy and unprofessional to put everything back
> > together and NOT bleed the system. It is precautionary, and helps
> > remove the possibly contaminated brake fluid from the system. Some say
> > that pushing the piston back into the caliper without opening the system
> > can push crud back into the master cylinder and precipitate early
failure.
> > I am not for sure about this, but wouldnt discount it. (I dont do it)
> > I dont think the problem you are seeing is from contaminated fluid, but
> > bleeding, to me, is a given. (Maybe others dont agree,and that is
certainly
> > their privilege)
> > If your back brakes are not working, you will lose a percentage of your
> > total braking power. Again, I cant believe this mechanic noticed the
> > a problem with the back brakes, and gave it only a superficial tweak.
> The mechanic has since suggested replacing the calipers – how likely
> do you think that these are the problem?
> > Loafing back brakes will put undesirable load on the front rotors, and
> > can cause them to fail early.
> > Was this a dealership, or a franchise like Just Brakes? In short, I
dont
> > care for the attitude of the mechanic or shop that did this.
> This was an independent dealer who specializes in European cars. He
> did a great job replacing my timing belt, but that is the only other
> service I’ve had him do.
I dont know about the Jetta rear disc system, but some of those four wheel
disc
systems have, or had, mechanical links to the pistons so that the parking
brake
will have positive displacement. These can double as adjusters. (Since the
link is mechanical, the typical caliper function may not be what you have
come
to expect) GM had some like this, and they were terrible about the parking
brake
‘adjusters’ freezing. It was not a matter of the pistons freezing in the
calipers.
When this happened on the older systems, the parking brake would work, but
the
frozen adjuster would hold the pads away from the disc or rotor. Bad news.
Again, Jetta may not be plagued with this.
When that happened, the rear brakes did not adjust, and all the load was on
the
front.
I would assume, or hope, VW does not use a similar system, but dont know
for sure. That is
why I made a statement about the mechanic not checking the function of the
rear
brakes.
You got a front pad and rotor job. You didnt get a brake job, IMO. And
even so, I would
have expected the mechanic to bleed the system.
Your life depends on your brakes. Take it whereever you want, but you
really want to
be sure they are working correctly.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
saxman wrote:
> > I have a feeling that you don’t really know the meaning of "force". Do
> > you have to push the pedal harder or does the pedal just travel farther
> > than it used to?
> Well, I definitely have to push the pedal further in, but I also have
> to apply more force to the pedal to get it to stop at the rate I am
> used to. In other words, if I push on the brakes in the way I am
> normally used to, the car takes a lot longer to come to a complete
> stop.
> >If the rear pistons were stuck and now are free and
> > working properly that would explain a lot.
> The rear pistons have *not* been stuck before. There had been no sign
> that the calipers had a problem before I took the car into the shop.
> In fact, the brakes seemed fine before getting the front pads
> replaced. The calipers only seemed to be stuck when the mechanic took
> the car into the shop. In this case, he said they were stuck in the
> "closed" position.
> >It would explain why the
> > front brakes wore out and needed work.
> I was under the impression the front brake pad replacement was normal
> wear-and-tear. (The car has 97000 miles)
> >It would explain why the pedal
> > now moves farther. Were you offered the option of having the brakes bled
> > and brake fluid changed for an additional charge? How about the rear
> > brakes did you have the option of doing them also?
> No option for either was given to me. After he ‘unstuck’ the calipers,
> the dealer offered to replace those – but at $800 I wasn’t too keen on
> him replacing them if they weren’t really malfunctioning.
OK. I would not go back. You need to find somebody you can trust to
look at your brakes and find out what’s wrong. It would be a good idea
to have the brakes bled and new fluid all the way around even if you do
nothing else.
-jim
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On Jan 30, 3:35 pm, jim <"sjedgingN0sp"@m…@mwt.net> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> saxman wrote:
> > > I have a feeling that you don’t really know the meaning of "force". Do
> > > you have to push the pedal harder or does the pedal just travel farther
> > > than it used to?
> > Well, I definitely have to push the pedal further in, but I also have
> > to apply more force to the pedal to get it to stop at the rate I am
> > used to. In other words, if I push on the brakes in the way I am
> > normally used to, the car takes a lot longer to come to a complete
> > stop.
> > >If the rear pistons were stuck and now are free and
> > > working properly that would explain a lot.
> > The rear pistons have *not* been stuck before. There had been no sign
> > that the calipers had a problem before I took the car into the shop.
> > In fact, the brakes seemed fine before getting the front pads
> > replaced. The calipers only seemed to be stuck when the mechanic took
> > the car into the shop. In this case, he said they were stuck in the
> > "closed" position.
> > >It would explain why the
> > > front brakes wore out and needed work.
> > I was under the impression the front brake pad replacement was normal
> > wear-and-tear. (The car has 97000 miles)
> > >It would explain why the pedal
> > > now moves farther. Were you offered the option of having the brakes bled
> > > and brake fluid changed for an additional charge? How about the rear
> > > brakes did you have the option of doing them also?
> > No option for either was given to me. After he ‘unstuck’ the calipers,
> > the dealer offered to replace those – but at $800 I wasn’t too keen on
> > him replacing them if they weren’t really malfunctioning.
> OK. I would not go back. You need to find somebody you can trust to
> look at your brakes and find out what’s wrong. It would be a good idea
> to have the brakes bled and new fluid all the way around even if you do
> nothing else.
> -jim
> —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==—-http://www.newsfeeds.comThe #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—– Hide quoted text –
> – Show quoted text –
> OK. I would not go back. You need to find somebody you can trust to
> look at your brakes and find out what’s wrong. It would be a good idea
> to have the brakes bled and new fluid all the way around even if you do
> nothing else.
That’s part of the problem, though – I am new to the area and have no
one else I "trust" to go to. I have already been screwed over by the
local VW dealership, and I do want to take this to someone I believe
is honest with me…..it’s just frustrating that problems with my car
and getting service for it have turned me cynical to all automotive
repair people.
"jim" <"sjedgingN0sp"@m…@mwt.net> wrote in message
news:1170189389_6845@sp6iad.superfeed.net…
> OK. I would not go back. You need to find somebody you can trust to
> look at your brakes and find out what’s wrong. It would be a good idea
> to have the brakes bled and new fluid all the way around even if you do
> nothing else.
> -jim
I agree with you, Jim. Something about this mechanic and his attitude
doesnt seem to track.
"saxman" <erll…@gmail.com> wrote in message
> That’s part of the problem, though – I am new to the area and have no
> one else I "trust" to go to. I have already been screwed over by the
> local VW dealership, and I do want to take this to someone I believe
> is honest with me…..it’s just frustrating that problems with my car
> and getting service for it have turned me cynical to all automotive
> repair people.
Look, Saxman… If you are in the USA, go to the AAA site, and find their
list of approved mechanics. Use this list as a shortlist to find a decent
mechanic. You do not have to be a member to avail yourself of this list.
But, overall, AAA isnt a bad deal.
"saxman" <erll…@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170186066.049301.292190@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>> I have a feeling that you don’t really know the meaning of "force". Do
>> you have to push the pedal harder or does the pedal just travel farther
>> than it used to?
> Well, I definitely have to push the pedal further in, but I also have
> to apply more force to the pedal to get it to stop at the rate I am
> used to. In other words, if I push on the brakes in the way I am
> normally used to, the car takes a lot longer to come to a complete
> stop.
>>If the rear pistons were stuck and now are free and
>> working properly that would explain a lot.
> The rear pistons have *not* been stuck before. There had been no sign
> that the calipers had a problem before I took the car into the shop.
> In fact, the brakes seemed fine before getting the front pads
> replaced. The calipers only seemed to be stuck when the mechanic took
> the car into the shop. In this case, he said they were stuck in the
> "closed" position.
>>It would explain why the
>> front brakes wore out and needed work.
> I was under the impression the front brake pad replacement was normal
> wear-and-tear. (The car has 97000 miles)
>>It would explain why the pedal
>> now moves farther. Were you offered the option of having the brakes bled
>> and brake fluid changed for an additional charge? How about the rear
>> brakes did you have the option of doing them also?
> No option for either was given to me. After he ‘unstuck’ the calipers,
> the dealer offered to replace those – but at $800 I wasn’t too keen on
> him replacing them if they weren’t really malfunctioning.
Hi,Saxton, the following is to educate yourself a bit about your
car–NOT to repair your brake system. It’ll allow you to talk intelligently
to & maybe deal better with a good mechanic.
First ensure fluid level is proper. If low, get car on a lift or slide
under it & check for leaks. Apply emerg. brake fully, and attempt to drive
FORWARD. It should hold & not allow car to move. Release & then find a
slight hill/slope & see if car will roll downhill without power from the
engine, without emerg. or regular brake applied, & unhindered by any stuck
brakes. Assuming it rolls freely, you’ve now found the calipers are moving
in (You said, "Parking brake still stops the car," & now emerg. brake holds
car from pulling off when engaged fully.) AND out ( it free-wheels down the
hill ).
If this test is passed, the rear brakes are working WHEN actuated by
emerg. brake mechanism.
Now with car on a level surface (parking lot?), idling in neutral, &
wheels chocked, engage emerg. brake positively, release, engage,
rel….15-20 times, quite rapidly, and w/o brakes applied. Idea is to
"pump" & move rear brakes in and out to try and adjust them a little
tighter–we’re assuming they are to be adjusted this way, a somewhat
reasonable assumption. If we are correct, you should now have more pedal,
and not have to push it as far in to get stopping action.
Another caveat: If your car calls for metallic pads, materials on
cheaper, non-metallic pads may require more force to stop than proper,
quality pads ; they may be a tad noisier, w/a scrubbing sound that’s esp.
noticeable on the 1st few stops in AM when they are cold. One last bit of
info: a general rule WE mechanics often use is to "adjust up the rear
brakes" when a customer complains of lo pedal, & front pads & rear
pads/linings are known to be good. Why? Because fronts are not adjustable!
Hopefully some of this will help you make good decisions about getting
your brakes in good working order–it may be the cheapest insurance you ever
buy. And please believe me when I say there ARE some good, trustworthy, &
conscientious mechanics out there. Best regards, sdlomi2
On Jan 31, 2:32 pm, "sdlomi2" <sdlomi2S…@yahoo.com> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "saxman" <erll…@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1170186066.049301.292190@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com…
> >> I have a feeling that you don’t really know the meaning of "force". Do
> >> you have to push the pedal harder or does the pedal just travel farther
> >> than it used to?
> > Well, I definitely have to push the pedal further in, but I also have
> > to apply more force to the pedal to get it to stop at the rate I am
> > used to. In other words, if I push on the brakes in the way I am
> > normally used to, the car takes a lot longer to come to a complete
> > stop.
> >>If the rear pistons were stuck and now are free and
> >> working properly that would explain a lot.
> > The rear pistons have *not* been stuck before. There had been no sign
> > that the calipers had a problem before I took the car into the shop.
> > In fact, the brakes seemed fine before getting the front pads
> > replaced. The calipers only seemed to be stuck when the mechanic took
> > the car into the shop. In this case, he said they were stuck in the
> > "closed" position.
> >>It would explain why the
> >> front brakes wore out and needed work.
> > I was under the impression the front brake pad replacement was normal
> > wear-and-tear. (The car has 97000 miles)
> >>It would explain why the pedal
> >> now moves farther. Were you offered the option of having the brakes bled
> >> and brake fluid changed for an additional charge? How about the rear
> >> brakes did you have the option of doing them also?
> > No option for either was given to me. After he ‘unstuck’ the calipers,
> > the dealer offered to replace those – but at $800 I wasn’t too keen on
> > him replacing them if they weren’t really malfunctioning.
> Hi,Saxton, the following is to educate yourself a bit about your
> car–NOT to repair your brake system. It’ll allow you to talk intelligently
> to & maybe deal better with a good mechanic.
> First ensure fluid level is proper. If low, get car on a lift or slide
> under it & check for leaks. Apply emerg. brake fully, and attempt to drive
> FORWARD. It should hold & not allow car to move. Release & then find a
> slight hill/slope & see if car will roll downhill without power from the
> engine, without emerg. or regular brake applied, & unhindered by any stuck
> brakes. Assuming it rolls freely, you’ve now found the calipers are moving
> in (You said, "Parking brake still stops the car," & now emerg. brake holds
> car from pulling off when engaged fully.) AND out ( it free-wheels down the
> hill ).
> If this test is passed, the rear brakes are working WHEN actuated by
> emerg. brake mechanism.
> Now with car on a level surface (parking lot?), idling in neutral, &
> wheels chocked, engage emerg. brake positively, release, engage,
> rel….15-20 times, quite rapidly, and w/o brakes applied. Idea is to
> "pump" & move rear brakes in and out to try and adjust them a little
> tighter–we’re assuming they are to be adjusted this way, a somewhat
> reasonable assumption. If we are correct, you should now have more pedal,
> and not have to push it as far in to get stopping action.
> Another caveat: If your car calls for metallic pads, materials on
> cheaper, non-metallic pads may require more force to stop than proper,
> quality pads ; they may be a tad noisier, w/a scrubbing sound that’s esp.
> noticeable on the 1st few stops in AM when they are cold. One last bit of
> info: a general rule WE mechanics often use is to "adjust up the rear
> brakes" when a customer complains of lo pedal, & front pads & rear
> pads/linings are known to be good. Why? Because fronts are not adjustable!
> Hopefully some of this will help you make good decisions about getting
> your brakes in good working order–it may be the cheapest insurance you ever
> buy. And please believe me when I say there ARE some good, trustworthy, &
> conscientious mechanics out there. Best regards, sdlomi2- Hide quoted text –
> – Show quoted text –
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions!
Is there any way to check if the rear brakes are engaging when *not*
using the emergency brake cable?
Also, is it possible for a mechanic to really ‘adjust’ the rear brakes
(as in, move the pads closer to the rotor if they are farther away).
If so, that might be something to try.
And I know that there are some good mechanics out there, I just wish I
had some way to know right off the bat! It’s so hard for me to have to
take everything a mechanic says with a grain of salt – I *want* to
trust them – I’ve just gotten burned quite a few times.
"saxman" <erll…@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Also, is it possible for a mechanic to really ‘adjust’ the rear brakes
> (as in, move the pads closer to the rotor if they are farther away).
> If so, that might be something to try.
If the elements of the braking system are working as they should, then
there is no adjustment needed on the disc system.
"saxman" <erll…@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170278696.937978.211740@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Jan 31, 2:32 pm, "sdlomi2" <sdlomi2S…@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> "saxman" <erll…@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1170186066.049301.292190@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com…
>> >> I have a feeling that you don’t really know the meaning of "force". Do
>> >> you have to push the pedal harder or does the pedal just travel
>> >> farther
>> >> than it used to?
>> > Well, I definitely have to push the pedal further in, but I also have
>> > to apply more force to the pedal to get it to stop at the rate I am
>> > used to. In other words, if I push on the brakes in the way I am
>> > normally used to, the car takes a lot longer to come to a complete
>> > stop.
>> >>If the rear pistons were stuck and now are free and
>> >> working properly that would explain a lot.
>> > The rear pistons have *not* been stuck before. There had been no sign
>> > that the calipers had a problem before I took the car into the shop.
>> > In fact, the brakes seemed fine before getting the front pads
>> > replaced. The calipers only seemed to be stuck when the mechanic took
>> > the car into the shop. In this case, he said they were stuck in the
>> > "closed" position.
>> >>It would explain why the
>> >> front brakes wore out and needed work.
>> > I was under the impression the front brake pad replacement was normal
>> > wear-and-tear. (The car has 97000 miles)
>> >>It would explain why the pedal
>> >> now moves farther. Were you offered the option of having the brakes
>> >> bled
>> >> and brake fluid changed for an additional charge? How about the rear
>> >> brakes did you have the option of doing them also?
>> > No option for either was given to me. After he ‘unstuck’ the calipers,
>> > the dealer offered to replace those – but at $800 I wasn’t too keen on
>> > him replacing them if they weren’t really malfunctioning.
>> Hi,Saxton, the following is to educate yourself a bit about your
>> car–NOT to repair your brake system. It’ll allow you to talk
>> intelligently
>> to & maybe deal better with a good mechanic.
>> First ensure fluid level is proper. If low, get car on a lift or
>> slide
>> under it & check for leaks. Apply emerg. brake fully, and attempt to
>> drive
>> FORWARD. It should hold & not allow car to move. Release & then find a
>> slight hill/slope & see if car will roll downhill without power from the
>> engine, without emerg. or regular brake applied, & unhindered by any
>> stuck
>> brakes. Assuming it rolls freely, you’ve now found the calipers are
>> moving
>> in (You said, "Parking brake still stops the car," & now emerg. brake
>> holds
>> car from pulling off when engaged fully.) AND out ( it free-wheels down
>> the
>> hill ).
>> If this test is passed, the rear brakes are working WHEN actuated by
>> emerg. brake mechanism.
>> Now with car on a level surface (parking lot?), idling in neutral, &
>> wheels chocked, engage emerg. brake positively, release, engage,
>> rel….15-20 times, quite rapidly, and w/o brakes applied. Idea is to
>> "pump" & move rear brakes in and out to try and adjust them a little
>> tighter–we’re assuming they are to be adjusted this way, a somewhat
>> reasonable assumption. If we are correct, you should now have more
>> pedal,
>> and not have to push it as far in to get stopping action.
>> Another caveat: If your car calls for metallic pads, materials on
>> cheaper, non-metallic pads may require more force to stop than proper,
>> quality pads ; they may be a tad noisier, w/a scrubbing sound that’s
>> esp.
>> noticeable on the 1st few stops in AM when they are cold. One last bit
>> of
>> info: a general rule WE mechanics often use is to "adjust up the rear
>> brakes" when a customer complains of lo pedal, & front pads & rear
>> pads/linings are known to be good. Why? Because fronts are not
>> adjustable!
>> Hopefully some of this will help you make good decisions about
>> getting
>> your brakes in good working order–it may be the cheapest insurance you
>> ever
>> buy. And please believe me when I say there ARE some good, trustworthy,
>> &
>> conscientious mechanics out there. Best regards, sdlomi2- Hide quoted
>> text –
>> – Show quoted text –
> Thanks for all the helpful suggestions!
> Is there any way to check if the rear brakes are engaging when *not*
> using the emergency brake cable?
> Also, is it possible for a mechanic to really ‘adjust’ the rear brakes
> (as in, move the pads closer to the rotor if they are farther away).
> If so, that might be something to try.
>>>>> snip <<<<<
Actually the rears are adjustable; many are self-adjusting via the
action of a rear mechanism working in conjunction with em. brake–like HLS
said earlier. That’s why I suggested you "pump" the rears by engaging &
releasing the em. brake rapidly. This mimics the action of many day-to-day
braking events which "move the pads closer to the rotor" on each brake
engagement. When this movement gets too great, the adjuster resets the
pistons/pads closer to the rotors as a ‘smaller-gapped’ starting point.
Systems have a coarser adjustment to be done manually when pads are
being replaced & rotors machined. Often done by screwing the pistons out BY
HAND to get them & pads relatively close to the rotor as a starting point.
Then, the self-adjusters perform the fine adjustment.
This pumping action via the em. brake should do what you wanted when you
asked how to "move the pads closer to the rotor if they are farther away".
BTW: That idea about calling AAA for mechanic-references is a great
place to start. AAA will know which ones have 15 years of good
experience–and which ones have 1 year of experience 15 times!!! The
agencies seem to be often "manned" by ladies who are good at passing the
news along (Sorry, ladies and gals–I just HAD to say that! I really do love
you all–God’s beautiful, sweet resources loaned to this earth for your
much-needed, non-duplicatable contributions! Bless you.)
Keep asking & listening in here: there are some great guys, willing to
help, & with knowledge & experience to back it up. sdlomi2
"saxman" <erll…@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1170278696.937978.211740@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Is there any way to check if the rear brakes are engaging when *not*
> using the emergency brake cable?
Chock front wheels. Jack up the rear end.
Spin each rear wheel. They should spin easily by hand and continue spinning
briefly when you stop pushing. There will be a bit of a scuffing or hissing
noise.
Does each wheel spin the same? Do they both continue to spin the same
amount when you stop pushing on the tire?
If there is a significant difference between wheels, one caliper’s piston
is sticking. If both are draggy, then the parking brake may be
overadjusted.
This assumes, of course, that all cables, calipers, pads, links and pins
are as free as they should be.
> Also, is it possible for a mechanic to really ‘adjust’ the rear brakes
> (as in, move the pads closer to the rotor if they are farther away).
> If so, that might be something to try.
All disc brakes are self-adjusting. You’ve only got a thousandth of an inch
or so clearance at all times.
Don’t know how VW does their rear calipers, but for Honda products there is
no adjustment, EXCEPT for the initial parking brake adjustment. With Honda
calipers, the caliper’s parking brake lever must be fully home against its
post, and the piston be all the way out to the rotor, before final
adjustment of the parking brake cable.
With a Honda rear caliper, there is no need to dial the piston out after
turning it in all the way. Each pedal press moves the piston out a quarter-
inch, so any slack is taken up very rapidly.
–
Tegger
"Tegger" <teg…@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns98CA872D04C54tegger@207.14.116.130…
> All disc brakes are self-adjusting. You’ve only got a thousandth of an
inch
> or so clearance at all times.
They are self adjusting if the adjusters work. They dont, always.
The GM ones, and some others I had seen had mechanical adjustment built as
a part of the parking brake system. It was not hydraulically operated. It
worked
on a jackscrew type mechanism inside the caliper.
In a perfect world, these WOULD self adjust. But when people didnt use
their
parking brakes religiously, and when the adjuster mechanism became seized,
then the rear brakes could no longer self adjust. The pads were close
enough to
the disc, usually, so that the parking brake cable could pull them to or
near the
disc surface. But, if the adjusters were frozen, when the parking brake was
released,
the pads would move back away from the disc.
Eventually they would get to the point that even the parking brake wouldnt
work.
At that point, you would have to release the ratchet mechanism and free it
with
some antiseize. You sometimes HAD TO adjust those brakes manually at that
time, because the spacing between pad and disc was too great to allow the
adjusters to work.
If you ever saw one of them work, it is easy to understand. It is not so
easy to
explain otherwise.
The old GM ones were a PITA. I havent seen much problem with the newer
all wheel disc designs.
<H…@nospam.nix> wrote in
news:1drwh.6928$O02.5047@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net:
> "Tegger" <teg…@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns98CA872D04C54tegger@207.14.116.130…
>> All disc brakes are self-adjusting. You’ve only got a thousandth of
>> an inch or so clearance at all times.
> They are self adjusting if the adjusters work. They dont, always.
> The GM ones, and some others I had seen had mechanical adjustment
> built as a part of the parking brake system. It was not hydraulically
> operated. It worked on a jackscrew type mechanism inside the caliper.
Honda ones do, too.
With Honda calipers, each time you step on the brake and squeeze the
pads against the rotor, you turn an internal screw. The piston backs off
the screw as the pads wear. The screw is what the parking brake cam
pushes on as it shoves the piston forwards to apply the parking brake.
The screw doesn’t turn when you apply the parking brake, only when you
step on the brake pedal.
The upshot of the above paragraph is that you can ignore the parking
brake entirely and the piston will still remain properly adjusted.
> In a perfect world, these WOULD self adjust. But when people didnt
> use their
> parking brakes religiously, and when the adjuster mechanism became
> seized, then the rear brakes could no longer self adjust. The pads
> were close enough to the disc, usually, so that the parking brake
> cable could pull them to or near the disc surface. But, if the
> adjusters were frozen, when the parking brake was released, the pads
> would move back away from the disc.
> Eventually they would get to the point that even the parking brake
> wouldnt work.
The GM design sounds stupid, frankly. Like those old drum brakes that
would only adjust if you were braking while moving in reverse.
And as I said, I don’t know how VW does their rear calipers.For all I
know, they’re just like the GM ones you describe.
–
Tegger